Ascents Into Heaven and Angel Messengers

May 24, 2013


In recent months, I have heard of two people who claim to have been to Heaven like the Apostle John. One was in the actual throne room speaking to God and Jesus while the other saw the Four Beasts and spoke to Michael the Archangel. Does this match Scripture?

Searching the Scripture, we can see God walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden. He took Enoch home with Him after one walk and brought Elijah up in a chariot. Neither has returned to tell us what they saw. Both are considered as likely candidates for the Two Witnesses in the Tribulation since neither died in the the traditional manner. When the living are translated in the Rapture they will experience instantaneous death and resurrection in a twinkling of an eye so it may not be necessary for either to return. Everyone else is on the earth when they speak with God or an angel. Isaiah got a view of Christ on the throne but he was firmly planted on the temple floor.

Indeed, we find that only John was taken to the throne room, but even he did not know if it was in the body or out of the body. Some think Paul is talking about himself in

2 Cor 12:1-5
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. KJV

I am not absolutely sure why some theologians believe that Paul was speaking of himself when he clearly says that he “knew a man” and “of such a one” he would glory but not glory in anything himself except his infirmities. Paul gave his resume and heritage in several places. If it was him he would not suddenly get coy or some sort of backhanded humility now.

Rev 10:1-4
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write : and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. KJV

Here are the unspeakable words that John was not to write and hence to not utter if they cannot be written as part of the prophecy that would be uttered for centuries. As we said, John in chapter 1 did not know if he was in the body or out of the body as Paul said of the man he knew.

I think what makes some think it is Paul is that they think because Revelation speaks of last things that it had to be written last. That is not a mandate. Daniel wrote of last days prophecy and many books were written after him. So, Paul speaking of John messes up when they think when the various books were written, but it is Paul speaking of John and not himself.

Now, can God beam people up to the throne? Yes, indeed! After all, He is God. He can do as He chooses and pleases. Have angels spoken to people in the past? Yes, they did. Are these types of things going on today? Scripture indicates no. Just because God does something once does not mean He is ever going to do it again. Everything in Scripture is there to teach us something, but it does mean it is to be a repeating pattern. Are we to march around Jericho again or cross the Red Sea? Those were one time deals. John’s experience is also one of those since no one before or since has done it until these last days of iniquity.

Heb 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? KJV

Remember that the prophets were Jewish and the angels spoke to Jews. Even though Cornelius, the Roman Centurion in Acts, was a Gentile by birth he was a Jewish convert. Thus he received a vision and an angelic visit as a Jew would experience.

1 Cor 1:21-25

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign , and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. KJV

Yet, even here in the epistle to the Hebrews, Paul is telling them that what they normally expect has been replaced by Jesus Christ. Though angels are still our ministering spirits there is no indication that they will be in the same capacity as before. The message has been given in Christ and thus no need to manifest themselves and give us messages. The New Testament is given as the message of salvation, separation and sanctification and full revelation of the future. We are now to walk by faith and not by sight for we have all that we need in the Word. The Old Testament was he tutor to bring us to Christ and now that He is replacing it things are different.

Paul even recognized that it would be hard for the Jews to give up angelic messages and knew that false prophets and demons would disguise themselves as angels of light so he gave warnings about them.

2 Cor 11:12-15

12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light .
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. KJV

Gal 1:6-9

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed .
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. KJV

2 Thess 2:1-2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. KJV

There were already people mimicking Paul’s style in letters that changed doctrine and taught heresy, which is why he signed in his own hand each epistle as a token of its authenticity. He had various men take dictation because his eye issues affected his own handwriting. (Gal 6:11, 2 Thess 3:17)

He also knew some would say an angel told them a new revelation or an update on what Paul taught. He said that even if he or any of his team came back and preached something different to them that the angel and the others, even him, should be accursed. There is no updates to the message. Thus if a preacher or a so-called angel gives a message contrary to Scripture they are to be ignored. They are false prophets influenced by the devil, if not demon possessed.

Some have supposedly seen angels that told them Jesus is coming. Would God send an angel to tell something that is already in Scripture? The ones I have read about delivered new news not old news. We take the Lord’s Supper as oft as we take it to show He is coming back as well as to remember His sacrificial death. I am sure He has far more important work for them. How they actually minister to us is not given to us in Hebrews, but telling us what we should already know and believe is not a plausible item on the list.

Our day and age is obsessed with miracles and signs yet signs are for Jews and it is mostly Gentile Churches that are enamored with them. Odd is it not?

Matt 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. KJV

Are we in a wicked and adulteress generation? Boy howdy! Jesus said that the sign of Jonas would be all they get. This is a parable saying speaking to His death and resurrection. Thus, it is all this generation should be getting since we are in the time of falling away where iniquity abounds and the love of many is waxing cold.

Yet, we have have so many hawkers putting the Spirit to work like a carny cranking out miracles at 10, 2 and 4 though most are not verifiable. We have people being raised from the dead but they are never anywhere that the media can cover it or the identity verified. Jesus walked down the street and raised the son of the Nainite widow. Everyone knew Lazarus and that he was dead four days. If you have such a gift, go to an ICU or a hospice home and have a MD declare the man dead and raise him on camera. No takers on that, I am sure. One person supposedly had the ministry of raising dead cats back to life. I do not recall anywhere in the Word where an animal was healed or raised from the dead.

Do signs truly verify the person as a prophet of God? No. Remember Pharaoh’s magicians could duplicate the rod into snake deal but Moses’ rod ate theirs. Well, someday the false prophets and so-called miracles workers will be eaten up as well.

Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. KJV

Can a false prophet’s miracles be that good?

Matt 24:23-24

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect . KJV

2 Thess 2:7-12

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders ,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. KJV

They can be good enough to almost deceive the very elect or saved and definitely good enough to deceive the lost. So miracles do not validate a ministry anymore. They did in the OT and when the Church was being established. Today they may well only be validating that the minister or ministry is not of God especially if there is false doctrine involved. Nearly all of the TV ministries have some sort of false doctrine. Some of the most popular ones are the worst. If they are doing miracles or seeing angels it is not of God.

Remember the true test of a prophet is not what miracles he performs but his doctrine or teaching.

Deut 18:18-22

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet , which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. KJV

Deut 13:1-5
13:1 If there arise among you a prophet , or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet , or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet , or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. KJV

If the prophecy does not come to pass as it was prophesied then the lad was stoned to death as a false prophet. You did not get a second chance or even variation of the prophecy. If I did not happen exactly you were done. A lot of folks would be no longer among us if we were still in the Old Testament times.

Even if the miracle did come to pass, if he used the miracle to lure you away from God then he was stoned to death as a false prophet. A miracle alone did not validate the prophet. Just as Paul said if there is any change in what was given in this case, by Moses as the true prophet of God, then you were done. The miracle better lead you to the true God and the prophet better not be contradicting truth already revealed by God, nowadays in His Word, or that miracle was a demonic copy and not the real deal.

2 Tim 2:14-16

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. KJV

If we are careful about things that are subjective or mystical and study the Word we will not be deceived by people who look good and sound good but are no good. Based upon what we have seen it the Word it is highly unlikely that anyone in this age is being transported to Heaven to see God or speaking to Michael and the holy angels. We must hold such claims as suspect and evaluate the doctrines taught by these people and if we find error, which will not be hard, then we need to declare them heretics and reject or avoid them as such as we are commanded in Scripture.

Titus 3:9-11

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. KJV

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